http://www.pledgebank.com/NoBacklash Comments on 'donate ten pounds to replace windows broken in attacks on East London Mosque after London tube bombings' en-gb team@pledgebank.com hourly 2 1901-01-01T00:00+00:00 http://www.pledgebank.com/NoBacklash#comment_2350 Jamie - I hear what you are saying and I do not condone hate crimes whether they are perpetrated against people on the grounds of their race, religion or sexuality. There is a certain irony in the sense that you are victim of the same crime and yet you appear to exhibit the least sympathy. Also, I am afraid that I am not the Guardian-reading, capuccino-sipping Islington Peacenik you think I am. (I actually initially favoured a war against Saddam on the grounds that I was hoodwinked by our government into believing he had WMD. I do now think that that war was a mistake and that we were badly let down by our government. One can only hope that one day the bloody carnage that engulfs Iraq on a seemingly daily basis subsides and Iraqis can get back to some sort of normality.) Nevertheless, I do appreciate your contribution to this debate because only through honest communication can people come to understand each other. I just wonder whether it is really so idealistic to think that one day we, as human beings, will realise that the things which divide us pale into insignicance compared to the things we have in common? Of course, that would require some effort and perhaps require us all to mend a few metaphorical broken windows of our own. [For all those who pledged I have contacted the mosque and follow up with you all next week.] http://www.pledgebank.com/NoBacklash#comment_2317 I appreciate that I know nothing of the situtaion which is being spoken of. However, a blanket refusal to help Muslim people because of negative experiences with a minority of them in the past smacks of the same "tar them all with the same brush" mindset which thinks it is OK to blow up tube trains and buses full of normal people because our government went against public opinion to support wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I appreciate it is hard to maintain tolerance when you are not treated with it yourself, but if we don't, will we not all just end up bigoted bullies too? http://www.pledgebank.com/NoBacklash#comment_2308 John, in response. I write as an out Gay man who lived alonside other Gay neighbours off of Brick Lane for a year not so very long ago in a virtually total Islamic neighbourhood. We were gradually all forced to leave when bricks started flying through our windows and when we began to suffer physical assault at the hands of this community and their sons. It was no secret that the Muslim clerics hated us and wanted us out of their district. And we went, rather than run the gauntlet of insult, assault and nightly spitting and harassment. Then at University the Gay society had to run the gamut of the Muslim groups who would disrupt our meetings, daub AIDS and other insulting graffiti on our posters and shout down anyone and everyone who disagreed with them - always with the label 'racist'. I wasn't racist, I still am not racist. I didn't however see the Politically Correct brigade lining up to help us, fix our homes or to fix the windows on our local Gay bar that was set alight & forced to close by Muslim hoods who just hated anyone white or different. On the contrary when we appealed to the local housing authority and Police to complain we were told that only white people are racist, and the police were only anxious that we were causing unrest in a politically sensitive area! At Uni, finally the Dean acted and intervened on our behalf, but we all knew that he would rather have looked the other way. Added to this neither do I and my friends observe people forming lines and handing around the hat to preserve the rights of other doctrinal groups that preach intolerance, homophobia, mysogyny, sectarianism and social revolution. I'm not trying to justify the vandalism, I just want all of the do-gooders to get a sense of perspective & get real. There are enough Muslim millionaires and businessmen in and around Brick Lane to replace the windows in the East London Mosque a thousand times without lots of political 10 pences from a guilt ridden and politically naive white community. I and many, many others just want justice, fairness and equality. All of this fluffy treatment for Muslims only alienates people. It may be politically unfashionable to really say what I believe and you may not like it but scratch the political surface and you'll find more resonance in what I am saying from wider society than you'd probably be comfortable with. http://www.pledgebank.com/NoBacklash#comment_2226 Jamie - I totally disagree that the community around Mile End Mosque "uses us as a cover for their radical, antisocial and facist beliefs". And who is exactly is this 'us'? Please don't think that you speak for me. All I see at the mosque is people worshiping there and going about their business in the same way that many other communities do across London. There is, of course, a tiny but dangerous minority of muslims in Britain who are prepared to use sickening violence in order to try to achieve their ends. Their bombs do not just kill "us" if by "us" you mean white, anglo-saxon christians; they happened to kill muslims and hindus too. I don't seek culpability for those dreadful dombings at the door of the East London Mosque. They are as much Londoners as I am and in that respect they share my grief. So, Jamie, ask yourself this simple question: "Do you approve of people vandalising the mosque or do you not?" Maybe you think they somehow 'deserve' this warped retribution? I happen to believe that those who think in this way are playing right into the terrorists who find a liberal and tolerant society as abhorrent as we find their nihilism. http://www.pledgebank.com/NoBacklash#comment_2213 To Jamie, I sincerely don't want to offend you but I do think that your cynicism may have gone too far. Someone is just trying to do something nice. http://www.pledgebank.com/NoBacklash#comment_2170 I am willing to consider donating £10, but first I need to see a confirmation that the members of the East London Mosque are as appalled and horrified by the attacks as I am. The best way for them to do that is to attend a public demonstration protesting against the attacks and telling the world loudly that suicide bombing is against the teachings of Islam, and is always wrong -- no matter what the circumstances or the cause. Conveniently, there's a pledge at Pledgebank that makes it easy to do this: the pledge is called 'solidarity', and the address is http://www.pledgebank.com/solidarity So here's what I'll do: I'll give a penny for every Muslim associated with the East London mosque or living nearby who attends such a demo. A thousand people will add up to £10. I'm sure, John, with your concern for the mosque and its community, that you'll be able to help come up with a creative way for mosque members to show their revulsion and to stand up and be counted. If you'd like to post updates -- preferably web links to photos and news stories about the London Muslims' demonstration -- then I (and I'm sure other people) will check back regularly to see how you get on. http://www.pledgebank.com/NoBacklash#comment_2163 I really respect your wish to have us all pull together but hasn't all of this fluffy treatment of a community that continues to strike political and social poses in this country and uses us as a cover for their radical, antisocial and facist beliefs gone too far!? Do you honestly believe that by us all clubbing together to fix a few windows that the nasty white men will go away and the patriachal and isolationist Muslims will start to be nice to us and not shout at us all of the time, stop wanting to kill Gays and anyone who disagrees with them and eventually stop killing us? Daft examples of appeasement like this one have gone far enough.